Personal Finance Strategy for Life Abroad
House Of Peregrine (01:03)
Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine podcast. Today I'm joined by someone who embodies so much of what we talk about here, freedom, flexibility, and the courage to build a life aligned with your values. My guest is Sophie Duong, a fully qualified European financial advisor who spent the last eight years living in beautiful Barcelona. Originally from London, Sophie and her wife decided to make the leap to Spain in search of a different rhythm and they've never looked back. Professionally, Sophie is nothing short of impressive.
She manages over 40 million in investments for 120 clients across Europe and beyond. Through her platform, The Wealth Advisor, with over 60,000 followers across all channels, and through her advisory business with Devere Spain, she's helped thousands of people gain confidence and clarity around their worldwide finances. but what really makes Sophie stand out isn't just the numbers, it's her mission, to empower people to create globally flexible lifestyles.
ones that support living, working, and thriving wherever they choose to call home. Whether through her financial coaching, social content, or educational courses, brings a clear, accessible, and a refreshingly human approach to money. In today's episode, we talk about how she helps people design financial plans that align with their dreams, not just their spreadsheets. We'll touch on international investing, building security without sacrificing adventure, and how becoming a parent is shaping her next chapter in Barcelona. Okay.
Here we go.
House Of Peregrine (02:27)
Welcome, Sophie. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really excited to have you on.
Sophie Duong (02:32)
Hey, Mickelle, thank you very much for having me on as well. And thank you for that beautiful ⁓ introduction.
House Of Peregrine (02:38)
course I want to start out by asking you about your story. You have recently become an international person yourself, not recently, but you didn't spend your life growing up abroad so tell me your story.
Sophie Duong (02:50)
Yeah, so I'm originally from London. I grew up in London to a family of immigrants. My parents are from Vietnam. They escaped the Vietnam War and settled in the UK and I was born in the UK and therefore I'm British. I grew up in London and about eight years ago decided to make the move over to Barcelona. My wife and I...
Well, actually it was my wife's decision. She always wanted to spend some time in Spain. She'd studied Spanish in Salamanca and she said, well, do you want to come? If not, I'm going anyway. And so I didn't really have a choice. ⁓ But it's been the best decision that I ever made. And eight years on, you know, we had, we initially had the idea of coming here for one year, which I'm sure a lot of expats decide, okay, let's give it a go.
and then fall in love with the city and the rest of this history. So here I am in sunny Barcelona, working the job of my dreams and loving every minute.
House Of Peregrine (04:02)
So now you're tricking me because you did grow up as a third culture kid in a way because your parents were from a different place. All right. All right. So you got me. I didn't know that part. Do you think that informed your ⁓ willingness to move to another country because of how hard or easy you saw your parents have it?
Sophie Duong (04:09)
Yeah.
I think it's not really because my parents' story was a story of two parts, a story of struggle in the beginning, obviously, and then obviously moving countries, it's difficult, especially as a refugee, right? ⁓ But their resilience and their growth and, you know, they managed to settle and build businesses in London. That made me feel like anything was possible.
So I guess the fear wasn't there as much as for someone who hasn't gone through that and haven't had that influence. But I loved my little bubble in London. I never saw life outside of London because that was all I knew. But I guess in some ways, yeah, seeing it, hearing the stories and knowing what my family had gone through and how they'd gotten from one country to another.
and then settled and created a life for themselves definitely helped me to feel like it was possible.
House Of Peregrine (05:23)
Yeah. Well, and I think that that's so super interesting you, was your wife's decision, not your decision, which is, which is a little bit my own story. it, uh, it was my decision. And then my partner was like, okay, cool. He got on board and of course is the biggest fan of what we've done just like you. But I think it's, it's tough when it's not your choice, which is also kind of the case, not the same, but being a refugee is that kind of like you didn't choose to leave you or.
Sophie Duong (05:30)
Yep.
House Of Peregrine (05:50)
not being being forced. Is that the right word you would use?
Sophie Duong (05:50)
Yeah.
You were uprooted, right? It wasn't your choice, it wasn't my family's choice, it was something that was beyond their control. ⁓ And it was a difficult time, but they managed to get through.
House Of Peregrine (06:07)
Yeah, well, and I love, and I want to move on from this, but I love this idea. I'm very interested in this idea of how generational migration patterns persist. And so it wasn't your choice, but in a very different way, but it's still the pattern continued. And so I love this idea of legacy ⁓ things happening again. I love, and also it's terrifying, right? That we may not have as much control over our future as we think.
Sophie Duong (06:32)
Yeah,
I think so. I think, you know, that story and having known what my grandparents and my parents had to go through ⁓ keeps me grounded, right? ensures that I know that absolutely anything can happen and not to be complacent about things that, you know, about risk, which as you will know, you know, across everything that I do, I'm a risk manager. I manage risk.
House Of Peregrine (06:56)
Mmm.
Sophie Duong (07:02)
⁓ across my clients' portfolios, across my own life. Everything's a risk assessment. ⁓ So yeah, I think it's definitely interesting, but at the same time, if I look at the rest of my family, I have a very big family. ⁓ Everyone has kind of values that stability, values safety because of that as well. ⁓
House Of Peregrine (07:25)
Hmm
Sophie Duong (07:29)
I guess I was the risk taker. Yes, yeah, we're both definitely risk takers for sure.
House Of Peregrine (07:33)
Yes, you married a risk taker.
Amazing. All right, well, thank you for indulging me for a second. That's a beautiful part of your story. I'm glad we got to talk about it. But you're a pretty amazing, well, you have 120 clients. You're managing over 40 million in investments worldwide. Tell me that story.
Sophie Duong (07:56)
So when I, as I said to you before, the move to Barcelona wasn't actually my choice, right? My life back in London, I used to manage health clubs. My background was in business management. I managed clubs called Fitness First. I don't know if you've heard of Fitness First, it was health and fitness was my life and managing teams and growing a business.
When we decided to move to Barcelona, I was looking for roles in a similar field, but even eight years on, my Spanish should be better, but my Spanish was really poor at the time. So you can imagine, you know, moving to a different country, especially a Spanish speaking country and working in a managerial role, it was just going to be very difficult to do that. So I came across Devere Spain, which is the company that I work with in terms of my financial advisory business.
And ⁓ they had opportunities for people like myself to join and retrain in a career that could have ⁓ a future in financial services. So I joined ⁓ De Vier Spain at an entry level and I decided, right, I'm going to do everything I can to get fully qualified as quickly as possible. ⁓
So I did all of my exams with the Chartered Institute of Insurance for, and it took me about a year and I got fully qualified. But I, yeah, I got fully qualified, but I was really desperate to become fully qualified as well because straight away I could sense that there was a real gap in knowledge, in understanding of personal finance and investing. And I guess one of my superpowers is
House Of Peregrine (09:29)
Well, wow.
Sophie Duong (09:51)
taking something really complicated and simplifying it and kind of saying, right, this is something that is accessible to you. I know it doesn't sound it because it sounds very complicated, but here's what it is in layman's terms. So I felt like, you know, in order for me to, to be as effective as possible, I needed to have the qualifications to do that. So obviously, ⁓ that's what really propelled my, my, my journey.
the starting journey in financial advisory. So within that first year, got fully qualified. And then ⁓ at the same time, started to build a book of clients through referrals, through networking, through business development, which I learned very much the skills from in my past role. so bridging the two together, business development and
House Of Peregrine (10:23)
Yeah, nice.
Sophie Duong (10:51)
and qualifications helped me to start to build a portfolio of clients that I could work with in advisory. So once you, guess I just kept it simple, right? So you start with one client, that turns to five, that turns to 10. And then before I know it, 120 clients onwards, here I am.
House Of Peregrine (11:12)
Yeah, amazing. Well, and you're in a very, at least I find, a very specific niche, which is, I think there needs to be more people doing this, especially with the way we're more globally mobile and more and more so. Did that just come naturally? Because that's how you were working yourself? Because you were from London, but living in Barcelona for an un... I'm assuming you didn't come and like, I'm going to stay eight years. Like you came for a year, you said, and it's, you know, you're putting down roots there, but they're not...
So this understanding, and now I know from also your parents, you have a passion maybe for giving what you needed at the time.
Sophie Duong (11:44)
Yep.
Yeah, absolutely. I know how hard it is to move from one country to another, ⁓ essentially starting from scratch, right? Going from working in a pretty senior management level in London, in the UK, to starting from zero. And I know the challenges that come with that. And I wanted to really help people to navigate that as well.
Annoyingly, I'm a type A person, so I can't help but help. So, you know, so if I know something, I'm going to share that knowledge to make it easier for someone else who, you know, who might find it harder to settle because of bureaucracy or, you know, they don't know how certain things work. ⁓ Sometimes shortcuts can actually help someone to settle and feel a bit more. ⁓
in control.
House Of Peregrine (12:48)
Yeah. And is it shortcuts or is it just sharing knowledge ⁓ and expertise? You have an expertise, so don't sell yourself short. You're not just helping. yeah, but it is. It seems I can identify because that's a little bit why House of Peregrine exists, because I'm like, moving to a new country is already hard enough. We don't need to reinvent the wheel every single time someone does it. So you're basically getting them to be able to be in some ways equal to the people around them financially.
Sophie Duong (12:55)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. I think when you come to a new country, the last thing you're, well, not the last thing, but you're just thinking about survival at first. You're thinking about how am going to stay in this country? ⁓ Then your personal finances are something you start to think, okay, maybe I need to start to build a life here financially. ⁓ But a lot of the time, your personal finances are left.
House Of Peregrine (13:39)
Yep.
Sophie Duong (13:47)
as a side note, something you kind of think, well, maybe I'll get to it one day because it, yeah.
House Of Peregrine (13:51)
Yeah. Or what I've experienced is like
you wade in and then there's all these rules and things you're doing wrong or maybe you're out of compliance and so then you go back out. You're like, nevermind.
Sophie Duong (14:00)
Exactly. You're working. Yeah.
You're working across different jurisdictions, different rules, different tax rules, different currencies. I myself, coming from London, the UK has a very different mindset when it comes to money, finances, investing to Spain. Spain is a completely different world. Right. So
House Of Peregrine (14:23)
Yeah, I always say money is cultural, but I don't really know what that means. So tell me if you're up for a philosophical debate about money. But I feel like what I didn't realize at least is two things. Money is cultural. Second thing is that money is actually what runs a lot of migration, like where the money lives, where the money lives and where you live. They want to be the same a lot of times and it wants to be claimed.
Sophie Duong (14:26)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓
House Of Peregrine (14:52)
So people want to claim where the money is going for various important and sometimes unimportant reasons. And so how do you coach your clients through that? Because there's advantages and disadvantages, but with that perspective, it's a lot easier to understand why things are the way they are, I think. Do I have that right? Or is that?
Sophie Duong (15:09)
Yeah, so obviously you earn, where you earn money and where you spend money is important. Where you hold money is also important ⁓ because ultimately those factors contribute to those jurisdictions where, you know, where they are. So just because you have moved from one country to another doesn't mean that your money isn't as international as you are.
And sometimes some people kind of think the easiest thing to do is to leave things where they are. But that's not always beneficial because again, the rules in the US, the rules in the UK are very different. And where your money is has to follow the rules of where the money is held. Where you are, where you are a resident, you have to follow the rules of, tax rules of where you live.
So location definitely matters in terms of personal location and where your money is held as well. ⁓ I work in the cross-border financial world, right? The international space. And I look at money in two different ways. Vehicle, so where the money is. Is there a way to protect clients' portfolios from tax, if possible, legally, of course.
and then what's inside the vehicle. And again, those locations matter as much as you, as much as where you are based, not just now, but also in the future. where you start to actually access your money is also important. So definitely location matters for sure.
House Of Peregrine (16:56)
Yeah, well, and I think that that's a perspective because there's no actual system that's taking care. So if you live in one country your whole life, you kind of join the system, you contribute towards the system. The taxes are kind of maybe they're inconvenient, but they're fair, at least whatever. But what I had an interview with the sociologist that deals in migration. Her take was most people do want to be in compliance, but it's actually almost impossible.
Sometimes you're out of compliance in one country and out of compliance in another without even while trying to follow the rules. So it's less her take was, and I want to hear what you think, is it's less about not paying taxes and more about paying a fair amount of taxes. Because if you're in multiple jurisdictions, it's just not sometimes fair. ⁓
Sophie Duong (17:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, to give you, to give you an example, as an American, you're an American, if you invest into assets outside of the U S like an ETF or, you know, an index fund that is based in Europe, then the U S will want to tax that as what we call a passive foreign investment company, a PFIC, which I would say 90 % of us Americans outside of America.
don't know that. And so you move to the Netherlands or you move to Spain and you start earning in euros and your bank says to you, hey, you now have 10, 20, 30,000 euros that's not doing anything. Why didn't you invest into our mutual fund? That mutual fund is considered a PFIC and the US will tax it close to 40%. And then at the same time, whatever interest you earn in the eurozone,
House Of Peregrine (18:12)
Yes.
Sophie Duong (18:40)
is tax the capital gains. So you're penalized ⁓ just for making a start, trying to grow your money. So it's difficult to know all of the rules, but that's where I come in, right? We sit down, we have a conversation. I holistically understand what your goals are, where you're based, your background. ⁓ And background also matters in terms of passports. You know, what passport do you hold?
House Of Peregrine (18:47)
Yep. Yeah.
Sophie Duong (19:09)
For example, for UK British nationals, we are one of very few countries that suffer from inheritance tax, even if you have moved away, right? So there are certain rules, ⁓ domicile rules that have to be accounted for when you die to decide whether you're still a UK domiciled individual or not. And if you are still deemed a UK domiciled person,
House Of Peregrine (19:23)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sophie Duong (19:39)
40 % inheritance tax on your worldwide assets. So things like that, ⁓ it's worth speaking to an expert about, it's worth having a conversation so that you are not at risk. And again, my job is risk assessment, right?
House Of Peregrine (19:48)
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
amazing. So, and this brings up a really good thing. So a lot of people look at digital natives as like these young people in their 20s that have no, but that's just not the reality. And digital natives, expats, international people, people who are immigrating, they all face similar challenges, especially as you acquire wealth or just live your life and acquire assets. So where do you come into that process?
It feels like to me, at least in my experience, there's at least what I have right now is a financial tax advisor in two countries because no one specializes across borders or they're too scared to advise on both countries. ⁓ So are you the when would someone come to you in the planning phase and what is a financial advisor as opposed to an accountant?
Sophie Duong (20:45)
Yep. So an accountant deals predominantly with tax, filing taxes, and usually it's more administrative actually. you, you you have your tax report to do, they will support you in filing that tax return. A financial advisor, and what I do is we start with an introductory meeting where I will understand all of the facts and essentially it's
It's an opportunity for me to get an idea of firstly, what your objectives are. Financial planning isn't just about here and now, it's actually more holistic. It's about what your priorities are now, but also what your priorities are in the next 10 years and then beyond. Future retirement planning. ⁓
House Of Peregrine (21:34)
So
you want them to bring their entire, every country, every passport, everything they have to you. Yeah, okay.
Sophie Duong (21:38)
Yes.
Everything. Exactly.
It's, as I said, it's a holistic conversation. We go, we talk about your goals. We talk about your income, your expenses. We talk about your ⁓ insurances. We talk about tax planning to a certain extent. I'm not a tax advisor, but I understand the rules of tax in different jurisdictions very, very well. And I also have a network of tax advisors depending on where
which countries we're involving, I'll always lean on specific tax advice if that's needed. ⁓ We then look at, again, what income requirements are needed now, and therefore how much someone can invest for their future. We then look at future goals and income requirements in the future. And most importantly, it's understanding, I'd say that retirement planning is a very big part of what I do.
And as an expat, ⁓ people don't tend to know where they want to retire. I sometimes find that people tend to, expats tend to get sort of the five year itch. So after five years, they're starting to think of the next country maybe because it's not as scary once you do it once. Right. So, we look at sort of, as I said, a holistic plan, but it's understanding firstly, what that outline of that plan is. Then.
my recommendations are always built around those plans, which are flexible, right? I think something that I come across quite often is that people feel like they have to have everything set out in stone. It's concrete, whereas you and I know priorities change all the time. so ⁓ having some idea of what your plan is, but room for course correction. knowing, okay.
House Of Peregrine (23:27)
Yeah.
Sophie Duong (23:37)
Do I need to, is this asset in the right place and optimized for that plan, for that goal?
House Of Peregrine (23:42)
Yeah.
And do your clients ever come to you and say, Hey, look, Sophie, I thought we'd live in this country for longer. ⁓ turns out one of our kids is not doing well here in school, or we have an ailing parent or any number of things. Plans have changed. Can you advise us? Maybe we have some flexibility. We can move this year or next year, or we can, we can stay registered here longer. Do you help them through those unexpected transitions to make sure?
So a good example is like the pandemic was a really big. so in my life, the Netherlands changed their visa policy. The pandemic happened and my husband sold the company all in the same three months. And we had no one to talk to about like, should we be deregistering? Should we be doing this? Should we be doing this? Because we thought we were on an eight year visa and they changed it within three months before our visa was up to five. And so.
Sophie Duong (24:39)
Mm-mm.
House Of Peregrine (24:40)
all this stuff. So what I wanted was someone to call and be like, should we be moving right now? Did only be in one jurisdiction or, you know, so a lot of fear happened and a lot of mistakes happened just because we didn't have someone on our who knew. So we were talking to both the sides of the ocean and they both were like, listen, all of what's going on right now is unprecedented. I guess your best, you so these were all unplanned things like you can't plan for these things. But also, like you said, we're kind of fickle. We're just like, we don't like like
Sophie Duong (25:05)
You
House Of Peregrine (25:10)
Peregrines in general are just like, yeah, it's not working anymore. So is that a moment that people can lean on you when, yeah, so then you help them.
Sophie Duong (25:11)
Yeah.
Yes,
100%. If you're considering a move, if it's a very general idea that feels very far away, but you just want some clarity around what that would look like, what the implications would be if you move there, what would the implication of you moving there be on your financial assets? Then that's certainly something that I will help my clients with.
and have a conversation with to see, again, it's all about optimizing, right? Most of the time, people build assets that are optimized for their current situation, where they're a resident now. In the UK, in the US, you have Roth IRAs, you have 401Ks. In the UK, we have pension plans and we have something called an ISA, where it's a tax-free vehicle. Those investment vehicles are great if you are a resident in that country.
soon as you decide, okay, I'm going to be moving somewhere else. Well, it might make sense for you to actually sell all of your investments within your, your ISA, because it's completely tax free, before you move to a country where that will, that asset would be taxed. Right. So for sure, ⁓ you know, having a conversation before you move to a different country is in your best interest.
House Of Peregrine (26:15)
Yes.
healthy, you can't just up and leave. Hilariously, that's exactly what I did. And then everyone's like, wait, you can't just do that. And we're like, what do mean? I mean, we were not so young, but we were definitely naive. And I think we're not the only ones. I like to think, but I like to think my mistakes can be turned into other people's easier time.
Sophie Duong (27:03)
Yeah.
And I would say, if we had a conversation when that was happening, the first thing I would want to understand is if you strip away you take money out of the equation, what is important to you? Yeah. And if then, you you say, well, I want somewhere where there's sun 300 days of the year. You know, there's, there are, there is a good schooling system. Then I can say, okay, well,
These are various options. And as an expat, there are different countries where, for example, in Spain, you have something called the Beckham law here, which was named after David Beckham, by the way, ⁓ where expats can move to Spain and benefit from a reduced rate of tax for five years. ⁓ are sort of little insights that can help you to make a decision on that next move if...
House Of Peregrine (27:42)
Yep.
Sophie Duong (28:01)
you are indeed globally flexible and you have the option to choose one of those places, right? And that's where we kind of start to layer in priorities. My job isn't to make the decision for you, it's to give you all of the information so that you can make an informed one.
House Of Peregrine (28:12)
Yep. Yeah.
Yeah, totally. And so I wanted to make sure I understand, but also our audience understands. if you have a global financial team that includes you, what does that look like? From what I gather, you can tell me if this is right. You have you who's kind of helping guide the values across the world. And then you would then also as an individual have a tax advisor in each country or a tax person.
Sophie Duong (28:25)
Yep. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, exactly. there is international tax advisors exist. ⁓ There are people who can give you tax advice if you involve two or three jurisdictions and you have assets in those places already. ⁓ You know, if you have a pretty complicated portfolio, you if you have a trust in one country and then you have
investment platforms in another, and then you have property or real estate in another, then in that situation, you would want to have an international tax advisor who understands those three or four different jurisdictions and how those assets will be treated now that you're moving to jurisdiction number four or five, right? So as a financial advisor, my job is to gather all of the information.
but also understand your objectives. As a financial advisor, we are way more about, you know, what's important to you, what your priorities are, what your goals are, and where you want to be in the future. Then at that point, we need to know where everything is and who to start to pull in, in terms of expert advice ⁓ that can just add a layer of extra information to help you, again, to make...
right decisions and to protect you from making bad ones.
House Of Peregrine (30:19)
So many bad choices. I cannot tell you, Sophie. So many bad choices. so they do advice. So you're almost like a first call if someone wanted to move abroad and then you can help them find the team that suits their their thing. That's really helpful because it feels like we did it backwards. And most people I know did it backwards. ⁓ And so that's really helpful. And so if someone's thinking of moving abroad, they can call you. Can they country? Can they go, OK, we're thinking of these three countries.
Sophie Duong (30:20)
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (30:47)
How does that work with my passport country? Is that something you help people through? Nice.
Sophie Duong (30:48)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. 100%. Think
of me as triage. Right? So, in a way.
House Of Peregrine (30:59)
You're the ER,
you're the triage, you're the planner, you're... I love it.
Sophie Duong (31:03)
Yeah, exactly.
But my job is to diagnose what the problems are first, as far as I can, right? Then I can make recommendations on solutions, on medicine, if you like. So, you know, people come to me with all sorts of different problems. And as you can imagine, no one client has the exact same path. Everyone has different objectives. Everyone has different assets in different countries. And so my job is to take all of that
House Of Peregrine (31:08)
Mm. Yeah.
Sophie Duong (31:33)
information on board and lay it out in a way that makes sense in terms of prioritizing which problems you have first and then letting you know what they are because a lot of the time you don't know what they are, right? So it's diagnosing the problems first and then recommending solutions that will help you to fix those problems but also meet your objectives in the future.
House Of Peregrine (31:47)
Yes, yes.
Yeah, perfect. Well, and I like how you say when there's problems because it's not simple what we're doing. And it's actually not like you said, it's not like you're in one system. You're in multiple moving parts. And like in my case, the country just decided to change my visa. It had nothing to do with me. It was like, yeah, I couldn't foresee it. And so those things, they are going to come up. Is that something I can say safely? Or least this is I tell people. Listen, you're not.
Sophie Duong (32:10)
Mm-hmm.
House Of Peregrine (32:26)
a standard case ever again. Welcome to the club. So now you need specialists in your life that understand what you're going through because if you just go to a firm in either country, they're just going to be like, everything's impossible. Everything's hard. You know, everything is an exception. I don't know what to do. So is it a change being an international financial advisor? That is basically what you're doing is recognizing there's going to be problems. There's going to be inconsistencies here.
Sophie Duong (32:50)
Yep.
Exactly. What we don't know is what changes may or may not come. We know that, but we know that they, it's a possibility. Everything I do, or recommend it, all of the advice I give is based on current situation and current rules and current tax, ⁓ you know, legislation. Whereas we know that governments change every three or four years. And so,
You cannot close your mind to think that something is going to be that way forever. And that's why it's important to stress test your portfolio, stress test your plans and your goals to see if they still meet the requirements of that country or they meet the legislation in that country.
House Of Peregrine (33:46)
Yeah. And I always just say, maybe you didn't need an advisor if you lived in your same country, but now it's almost like you need someone on your team like that. The very least you need to at least once sit down with a plan. Need is relative, but like, again, like you're saying, usually people leave it till last and maybe it should be first. And that's what I'm trying to get people to see.
Sophie Duong (34:07)
Yeah. And you know, sometimes I'll sit down with the client and we'll go through, you know, what the current situation is. And I'll start to say, look, do you know that you should be filling out this form or that and different, you know, things and they're like, God, But the great thing about some jurisdictions is that if you then, you know, if, if in hindsight, you then go and, and, and file that form that you were supposed to do four years ago.
they tend to say, okay, you didn't know, right? But in some cases, that isn't the case. And so you have to pay a penalty. But yeah, my job isn't to make things more difficult for you. It's just to highlight what the issues you currently have are and then let's fix them. And then let's now move toward the goal rather than make mistakes on the way.
House Of Peregrine (35:01)
Yeah, absolutely. I want to ask about entrepreneurs. that, and I guess this moves more towards like what your type of client is, but what I've found, because my husband and I are both entrepreneurs, is we have so many layers. So we have like, we're from the US, we live in the Netherlands, which is another kind of annoying tax jurisdiction. We both have companies and they are in this, like, our passports are there, we have residents here, you know, all this stuff.
And so being an entrepreneur sometimes adds a layer that scares financial advisors, understandable. But is that a kind of client you help as entrepreneurs?
Sophie Duong (35:41)
100%. Entrepreneurs are wonderful to work with actually because they all have already have a growth mindset. And I'd say, you know, why do I do a lot of my educational content is to help people to develop that mindset, to know that it's possible to grow your wealth, especially in countries like Spain, where people tend to rely on state benefits, right? It's not necessarily
House Of Peregrine (35:57)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Sophie Duong (36:09)
normal if you like to build your own asset of your own portfolio of assets because the state pension here is the full state pension here is like 45,000 euros a year right so as opposed to the UK where it's 12,000 pounds big difference but just going back to what you were saying about money being cultural that's one example of it but at the same time entrepreneurs fall into that cultural
House Of Peregrine (36:20)
Mmm. Wow.
Yeah.
Sophie Duong (36:38)
sort of money mindset situation, because not only do you want to grow your money and grow your business, but sometimes it might make more sense for you to keep the money within your company structure and grow it within there before you start to draw an income. So that is something that ⁓ I help with and help to understand income needs and is there a way for you to be tax efficient?
House Of Peregrine (36:55)
and
Sophie Duong (37:07)
with the company whilst growing your money and investing it as well. Does that make sense?
House Of Peregrine (37:12)
Yeah, awesome.
Yeah, because a lot of entrepreneurs aren't doing that. Not only because they don't want to, it's too complicated, but they just don't have time.
Sophie Duong (37:21)
Yeah, and it's access, right? As a financial advisor, my job is to open doors and say, hey, did you know that this is something you can do?
House Of Peregrine (37:31)
Yeah, nice. Well, I'm planning for the future, like you said. Often I'm speaking for myself here, but when you're so focused on growing a company and enjoying your life, you're not thinking about the future enough. And sometimes I find that, and again, this could be me projecting, but a lot of us, are living, trying to live more in the moment. And maybe there's just so much cognitive overhead of being an international person that 20 years seems like a really long way away or retirement. It seems
like really far away and this is most people but I think it's exaggerated in people who are living internationally. They're like, you know, it's almost like you lose hope too. Like, oh, there's so much going on between countries. Like that's maybe I just have given up on investing or retirement fund.
Sophie Duong (38:17)
Yeah.
And it's as an entrepreneur, you you're spinning so many plates already. Your personal finances is just one, one other plate for you to spin that, as I said to you before, and this isn't just entrepreneurs, actually, this is a lot of people, they tend to leave that plate to one side because they think, well, that's something I can deal with later. Next week, next year. And then before, know, 10 years have passed and you're still, you know, without a plan. ⁓
Time is everyone's best friend. So the sooner you can start to make plans and talk about your money, because at the end of the day, what is it for? What is the business for if it's not your exit plan? Yes, okay, you want to generate an income now, but for the most part, people, entrepreneurs want to build their business to a certain point and then have an exit plan. And that's where I think some entrepreneurs can
feel a little bit stuck and slightly, you know, that's their baby, right? So my job is to kind of say, okay, you're doing a fantastic job growing your business, but at some point you're going to want to start to join Inca. What's the best way to do that?
House Of Peregrine (39:36)
Yeah, this is like therapy. I'm sitting here. You're giving me therapy right now. I'm like, yeah, I do feel that.
Sophie Duong (39:38)
That's not the first time
that I've been told that my sessions come across as like therapy sessions. ⁓
House Of Peregrine (39:51)
That's not normally, that's not normal. You might, you're
an exceptional person if you're talking about people's finances and it feels like a really nice therapy session.
Sophie Duong (40:00)
Yeah, it's,
do know what it is? think money is something that people really feel anxious about talking about. And a lot of the time people don't realize how emotional money is and how it pulls on different areas of your life. And even though it's a focal point, your money, your personal finances is literally, you know, the main driver of your future income and
House Of Peregrine (40:08)
Mm-hmm.
Sophie Duong (40:29)
even some of the decisions you make now, it's still that part that is neglected.
House Of Peregrine (40:35)
Yep. Yeah. You're focusing on survival. Yeah. Yeah.
Sophie Duong (40:36)
you're focusing on all of the other things you know so exactly and so
when I when people sit down with me it's kind of like okay this is my one hour of focusing on that really important thing that I know I should have been looking at and that ties into all of these other areas of my life
House Of Peregrine (40:56)
A lot of
people come to you after they've been somewhere 10 years, don't they?
Sophie Duong (41:00)
Yes. Yes, exactly. ⁓ And again, it's not my job to kind of say, you should have started earlier, which of course, everyone knows that starting earlier is great. I do, I say sometimes my job is to turn up the pain dial a little bit and to highlight, well, what is the cost of inaction? What will happen if you leave this another year or leave this another 10 years?
House Of Peregrine (41:14)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah.
Sophie Duong (41:30)
to
be a lot harder right so
House Of Peregrine (41:33)
Beautiful. Well, and that's
a good trainer, right? Like any good consultant trainer, teacher knows when to turn up the pain and one knows when to back off. But money is that. And I've asked this to a lot of people, but I think that shame is a big part of it can be a big part of not investing sooner. But the way my partner and I always look at it is we were investing in something different.
Sophie Duong (41:44)
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (41:59)
now it's time to settle down and invest in something else. So our priorities were not to be focused on that right then. ⁓ And so now it's time to, or whatever, like we try and go back and tell the story in a way that's more beautiful ⁓ so that we can then move forward with less guilt and shame and all this stuff because ⁓ investing can happen in many ways and like you said, emotional ways. But if you're looking to have a secure future, there's a very,
not easy, but like there's an obvious way if you want to grow your money and, and be, have a retirement and have an exit plan, like you said, that you need to focus on at some point. Cause
Sophie Duong (42:42)
Yeah, think money moves where you tell it to move, right? priorities are different for different people. And this is why I always say to you, or I say to clients as well, it's not my job to tell you what your priorities are. It's your job to tell me what they are and I can help you to decide which ones to focus on and how best to do that. Right? So
House Of Peregrine (42:48)
Yeah.
Is it fair to say, not to interrupt you, but is it fair to say you're just like, I want to help you grow it.
Sophie Duong (43:15)
my ultimate job is to help you to grow it. That's why we always, you know, at the beginning of every session that I have with a client always starts with goal setting. It always starts with, what is your financial independence number? And everything is then centered around that. But then we start, we kind of go long-term and then we move to the short-term, yeah, backwards. So.
House Of Peregrine (43:18)
Yeah.
Sophie Duong (43:43)
Although, you know, and a lot of the time, the reason why I highlight that financial independence number is because people don't think about it until it's too late. Most of the time, right. They're thinking about, okay, I really want to buy a house because that's what everyone does. That's, you know, I've been told I need to have a house. So that's my first thing. Or I've just started this business, especially for entrepreneurs, you know, that's your baby. That's all my money's going back there. So again, my job is to go, well, what's the risk?
of you focusing everything on those one or two goals, rather than maybe going, okay, that long-term goal is also a really big priority for you because if you don't hit that number, two things are gonna happen. You have to work for longer or you have to reduce your quality of life. Which one of those do you wanna do? Come on.
House Of Peregrine (44:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and would you
say that one of your messages is like, you can do both. This can be your baby and you can be taking care of your future. That is a paradigm that is so hard to get to without your expertise or without someone on your team going, no, no, no, no, you can do both. I promise you can do both. I think that's really beautiful actually.
Sophie Duong (44:42)
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah, because we're also in a world where attention is, is, is, you know, everyone's trying to grab your attention. And every one of the things that you are thinking about as a priority is trying to grab your attention when it comes to money. Right. I need to get my kid this thing for school, or I want to buy this because it's a holiday that I really want to go on. It's like the now is the present. Unless you...
Unless you take a step outside of the box and you go, okay, that's all the stuff that I want now. That's the lifestyle that I have now and I want to maintain that. But at the same time, future me needs to have X, Y, and Z as well. How can I look after future me at the same time as looking after present me? ⁓
House Of Peregrine (45:51)
Yeah, yeah.
And I want to ask you, because I feel like that's a perspective that many have when they live in their home country and it kind of helps with the infrastructure, right? Like, yeah, you could ignore it, but it's a little harder. Do you, so I think one of your beliefs is you can be an internationally flexible person and take care of yourself in the future.
Sophie Duong (46:12)
100 % I'm living proof of that and that's why I feel like I can spread that message as well. ⁓ Not just for myself, but all of my clients are international people who have made similar moves and are living a wonderful life now, whilst looking after their future self as well. ⁓ Plans can change. Yeah, plans can always change, but what you don't want it and again, this is the risk assessment part.
House Of Peregrine (46:33)
I love that so much, yeah.
Sophie Duong (46:42)
side of me again. What you don't want to do is have less choices in the future because you focus too much on the now.
House Of Peregrine (46:48)
Yep. Our slogan at House of Peregrine is it's now. ⁓
Sophie Duong (46:54)
Okay,
we've got to change that to it's now and later.
House Of Peregrine (46:57)
Well, I feel it's my responsibility to then help people plan for the future. Stay in the present. No,
but I think maybe this is just my story again, but I feel like the story of immigration and expat and ⁓ even migration is one of sacrifice in a lot of ways, or you feel guilty because you're living. And so it often gets to this place of sacrifice. No, I can't have both. I gave up this for this. ⁓
Right now in other countries, especially in US, I hear this a lot. Well, I'm getting out of a place that doesn't work, so I'm willing to give up anything, right? And it's like, that doesn't have to be the story. You don't have to have this mentality. And I think it's generational. I really do, that you have to sacrifice or die. And it comes through in our money stories, I think. And this is one way it comes through in our money stories. It's like, I can't have both. I can't live in a place I love.
escape whatever it is I'm escaping or go towards a life on the beach, whatever it is that you think is your ideal life you're going towards. It almost seems selfish. Is that something you see?
Sophie Duong (48:03)
Yeah,
I think so. I think there's definitely a battle that people can have in their minds about, what should I be doing versus what do I want to do? But I think the main message is that is time, right? You only have a finite amount of time and therefore sometimes you need to be a little bit selfish and you need to say, OK, what do I want from my life now and in the future?
House Of Peregrine (48:32)
And take it and you can have it and you can get it and it's possible. I love this message. I love it. And this has literally now been more about therapy than finances because
Sophie Duong (48:34)
Absolutely. 100%. Yeah.
Hey,
therapy and finances.
House Of Peregrine (48:46)
No, but I mean, think what's clear is that you know your stuff, right? You're managing so much assets that you know your stuff. And so then it gets down to this philosophy of money, how you understand what some people might be going through. Because I know if you talk about this with another financial advisor, they're gonna be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, just tell me. But also I think that what I find really important is that you are not afraid of going, it's not like you specialize in
US, Spain, like that's, you're willing to look at everything and then find the right person because there's a lot of people who just specialize in one connection or two or just Europe.
Sophie Duong (49:28)
Yeah, I think, you know, as I said, I work with Devere Spain, who are part of Devere Group and we're one of the largest independent financial advisories globally. You know, there are 50 offices worldwide and therefore I can lean on support when I need to. can, it's access, it's access to technical knowledge, but also local knowledge as well. And I think, as you said, my USP is
House Of Peregrine (49:37)
Yeah.
Sophie Duong (49:56)
I have clients all around Europe already, right? And so I know I have touched on the rules in France, the rules in Ireland, the rules in Spain, the rules in the Netherlands. And what you start to do is you start to build an armory of rules, of just things that you need to know for those different countries. And I have to stay on top of those things as well, right? So as you said, rules can change anytime. As a financial advisor,
House Of Peregrine (50:13)
Mm-hmm.
Sophie Duong (50:25)
especially in the international space, it's my job to know when those changes are happening and to kind of foresee some of those changes to help my clients to know how can they protect themselves from them.
House Of Peregrine (50:38)
Yeah, nice. Yeah, it's great. And so most of your clients are living in Europe and then they're from all over. Yeah, okay, cool. And then my last question for you is really more about, I want people to know when, obviously before they move is a great time to talk to you, but if they've lived abroad for 20 years,
Sophie Duong (50:44)
They are, yep. They're from all over, exactly. Yep.
House Of Peregrine (51:08)
Is there a time someone shouldn't reach out?
Sophie Duong (51:11)
Is there a time someone shouldn't reach out is when they have already achieved financial independence and there's nothing, nothing else that they need to, know, they're absolutely, everything in their financial plan is perfect. You know, I think.
House Of Peregrine (51:25)
I was looking for
when they are being carted off to prison because they haven't paid taxes. No, but I mean, there are real consequences to being out of compliance. And that's not a fear tactic, but it is you are paying for that security. Like having you on your 13 is also a peace of mind. It's a part of.
Sophie Duong (51:30)
That too, that too. I think that's definitely a given. ⁓
Yeah.
Yeah. Because actually, so, yeah, you know, as an, as an individual, is your responsibility to be compliant and you can have all of the team and you can have all, know, you can have the best accountant, the best advisor, whatever, but ultimately it falls at the responsibility falls on you to make the right decision and to be compliant. And so to ensure that you have.
people on your team who are looking out for you and making sure that they are adding to, know, they're making sure that you are being compliant, ⁓ definitely helps. So there isn't really ever a time where it doesn't make sense to get advice, especially if you're about to move country or even if you've moved country and you've been there 10 years, but you've, and this happens, but you've kind of...
you've kind of buried everything under the sand because you think, that's something I'll deal with later. And then time just goes by. It's been 10 years and you still haven't done this thing. So there's never a bad time. ⁓ I help people in the accumulation phase, so people who are really starting to build wealth, all the way up to people who are in the protection phase. So who need more sort of understanding how inheritance taxes and succession tax and how to protect from that work.
House Of Peregrine (52:50)
Mm-hmm.
Sophie Duong (53:16)
⁓ but yeah, so, okay, go for it.
House Of Peregrine (53:17)
Okay, you've just given me another question. Explain
those phases. I know it seems really, really basic, but I think when you're an international person, you don't know you're going through the phases maybe. So when you're backpacking across Europe or if you're an expat at a startup in the Netherlands or whatever, you're in the building phase. And how long do those phases last in general? Of course, lifespans are different.
Sophie Duong (53:39)
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, they last and again, objectives are really different as well, right? You might have someone who wants to become, who wants to achieve the fire movement, which is financial independence, retire early. You might have someone who wants to retire at 40. Therefore their accumulation phase is all the way up to that point. The protection phase is up until the point where you have achieved your financial independence number and you have a portfolio of assets that are
House Of Peregrine (53:48)
Yeah, yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Sophie Duong (54:13)
paying you enough passive income so that you don't need to rely on a job or a salary or an employer to fund your lifestyle. Right? So.
House Of Peregrine (54:21)
Yeah. So it's basically
like when you're young, you're kind of in the accumulation phase. Is there a middle phase or is it just accumulation?
Sophie Duong (54:29)
There is a middle phase. The middle phase is, I guess, where the two meet, is where you start to build assets and have family, for example, where there are certain question marks around, okay, is this asset going to be protected if I die and I have two children who I want to make sure that ⁓ those assets are distributed to? Does that make sense?
House Of Peregrine (54:53)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Sophie Duong (54:55)
There is a crossover period. It's not, that's why I'm saying it's not really about age as much. It's more about, know, accumulation. Yeah. Milestones, accumulation phase. You are just building your, your, you have your goal. You're earning good money or even, you know, it doesn't really, it's not necessarily about what you earn actually. It's more about how you spend it. As I said, money moves where you tell it to move. So, you know, as long as you
House Of Peregrine (55:04)
Milestones, yeah.
Sophie Duong (55:25)
are growing and you're adding to your net wealth rather than spending it all, you're accumulating. You're in the accumulation phase. Protection phase is more, okay, you have assets, you need to protect them, or you have dependents, or you have people who you care for, and you then need to start to protect your wealth and you need to start to think of different ways that you can optimize your existing portfolio for those things.
House Of Peregrine (55:51)
Nice, cool. And that's happening as an international person. And what we don't talk enough about is this inheritance part. Nobody wants to think about it, but more than one person I have come across has had a spouse ⁓ die while they're abroad and they haven't been prepared properly because it might be okay to do that, not have a will or a plan when you've grown up in a country and stayed there. It still might be costly in a lot of ways.
but it adds a whole other layer of complexity to not have a plan if you are between countries, if you're in two different jurisdictions. And so is that something, I mean, no one wants to think about it, but is that one thing that I think international people actually don't have the luxury of not thinking about it?
Sophie Duong (56:38)
Everyone should be thinking about it for sure. There is a, I don't know how old this saying is, but there is a saying in the financial advisory world that there are only two things that are certain in life and that's death and taxes. Right? So to have both of them happen at the same time is a pretty solid blow. So, ⁓ you know, it's gonna, unfortunately it's morbid to talk about, at some point,
House Of Peregrine (56:50)
Texas, yeah.
News flash,
Sophie Duong (57:06)
At some point you're going to die.
House Of Peregrine (57:06)
we're all gonna die.
Sophie Duong (57:11)
if you, know, if it's important, know, estate planning isn't something that's important to everyone. Don't get me wrong. But for those of you who have values of estate planning and, you know, passing on assets to your children or loved ones or charity in some cases as well, it's better that you put the plan in place and make the arrangements so that
your assets aren't going to the tax man instead or tax woman instead, right?
House Of Peregrine (57:39)
Yeah. So
money moves where you want it to even after you die.
Sophie Duong (57:43)
Exactly, exactly. And if you don't tell it where to go, then unfortunately it will go elsewhere.
House Of Peregrine (57:48)
Yeah.
I just want to be clear, Sophie, even if you live near the beach in Barcelona, you still die.
Sophie Duong (57:57)
Yes. And I would actually say the risk may be higher because there's jellyfish in Barcelona Beach. ⁓
House Of Peregrine (57:58)
hahahaha
No, ⁓ I
think that a lot of times we're out running things we don't want if we're moving. There's often an element of that. We're out running what we don't want to think about, including, I'm just saying, perhaps death.
Sophie Duong (58:20)
Yeah, but also it's, you know, where your assets live as well matters when it comes to inheritance and succession as well. Right. As I said, there are very few passport holders in terms of countries where the inheritance is based on a person's estate. But in other countries like Spain and Italy and France, the succession tax is based on the beneficiary where the beneficiary or where the assets are. So
House Of Peregrine (58:28)
Yep. Yep.
Sophie Duong (58:49)
There are different rules for different countries ⁓ based on where the deceased person lived, where the beneficiary is, and where the assets are.
House Of Peregrine (58:57)
Mm-hmm.
All right, you're hired. Like I can't, I can't. My brain is now breaking. Like I thought I had a pretty good idea. Now, even if I didn't need an additional tax advisor, now I do. No, this has been such a helpful conversation, Sophie. Is there anything else you want to say before we wrap up?
Sophie Duong (59:10)
you ⁓
No, guess it's been an amazing conversation. Super easy to, you know, as you can see, I get a little bit passionate about ⁓ just helping people navigate the complexities of financial planning on an international level. So, yeah, it's been a real pleasure.
House Of Peregrine (59:40)
⁓ me too. And I can say, I love that I can see where it comes from, that your background and everything. And that to me makes it so you're doing your life's work, which I find really beautiful to see. So thank you for showing it to us. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being so passionate about this because obviously in the international community, we need people like you. thanks so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it. Where can people find you since we obviously now need
to know where our money lives and where our descendants live. We all need you now. How do people find you?
Sophie Duong (1:00:15)
Okay, so my main website is thewealthadvisor.com and on there you'll find links to the advisory if you need one-to-one financial advice or financial coaching. There's a money course on there as well. It's called One Day Money Mastery just for people who I guess want to take control over their finances on a self-based basis. I also create loads of
House Of Peregrine (1:00:38)
Amazing.
Sophie Duong (1:00:40)
Content, educational content for free on TikTok. That's at the wealth advisor on LinkedIn as well and on Instagram. So you'll find me across multi-channel.
House Of Peregrine (1:00:51)
You're on all the platforms. All right, we'll also link it below. And yeah, thank you so much for coming on again. And thank you to everyone for joining us today on the House of Peregrine podcast. I hope you will like and subscribe and even leave a comment because we read them all. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.