HOP Artist of the Year: Darren Smith, His New Book: Mayflies: Intimate Portraits from Global Festivals and How Living Abroad is Like One Big Global Danceparty.

House of Peregrine (01:03)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine podcast. I'm Mickelle Weber and I'm so happy you're joining us today. I am thrilled to be able to introduce to you American photographer and Philip Peregrine, Darren Smith. House of Peregrine's featured artist for the 2025-2026 season. His new collection of work in the form of a coffee table book, Mayflies, is a collection of work that I am really resonating with. So I am carrying it around and telling everyone about it.

Mayflies is a beautiful and provocative collection of portraits Darren made while traveling to festivals and gatherings around the world. Think Burning Man and the City of Gods in the US, the Milkshake Festival in the Netherlands, or the Day of the Dead celebration in Mexico. The portraits in Mayflies are masterpieces of the fleeting moments of authenticity we all may be able to relate to.

You can see the moment a stranger claims our identity, something I think we all have experienced at some level. What I love about Darren's work and why I'm excited he's our featured artist this year is the way he holds this paradox with such tenderness and respect and devotion that only he can capture. To be able to capture spectacle with such intimacy, with an outsider's eye and an insider's care, only can come from someone who actually has experienced this himself.

I feel like the House of Peregrine community will find residence in these images and I'm inviting everyone listening to take a look at Darren's work through his website or you can purchase his book in our shop. We will link that below and as we interact with Mayflies this year, I'm inviting you to find the residence that is international life with the beautiful images and the concept of Mayflies. All right, enjoy this episode.

House Of Peregrine (02:48)

Welcome Darren, I am so glad that you have joined us today. How are you doing? I want to just first point out your beautiful pink headphones that you have gifted us with So we'll talk about that in a second. But I really want you to start by introducing yourself and your book Mayflies.

Darren Smith (03:09)

Okay, I'm Darren Smith and I grew up in a small town in Virginia and when I turned 19 I decided it would be a great idea to go to university in Australia just completely on the opposite side of the world.

And yeah, exactly. And it was through that curiosity and international mindset that when I later moved to Amsterdam, I started just photographing the nightlife here and discovering what I love about the city and the freedom and identity, the ability to be who you want to be, that really inspired me to set out around the world and

House Of Peregrine (03:24)

as one does.

Darren Smith (03:52)

discover places where people can freely express themselves. And so the place I grew up, yeah, was also kind of within that satanic panic moments and All right.

House Of Peregrine (04:03)

don't know about the satanic panic moment.

Darren Smith (04:06)

So that was in the like 80s early 90s when you know the idea of ⁓ sex drugs and rock and roll these are all gateways to Satanism and that if you played the record backwards that's that was you know going to put you down the wrong path so to speak so I tried to get away from that as far as possible because it was just a place where

And growing up, you really felt that your own identity was somewhat constrained within society's parameters.

House Of Peregrine (04:38)

had a really strict code of conduct where you grew up.

Darren Smith (04:41)

Absolutely. And it wasn't say like completely religious based. It was societal fears around that time of gang violence and drugs in the early 90s in the US. I think for small towns, that fear was very real. And I very much didn't want to be a part of that.

House Of Peregrine (05:03)

Yeah, interesting. So were a weird kid that had to kind of, I say weird, like I love weird people, so this is a compliment, but were you having to of ⁓ tamp down things that you wanted to try or things you wanted to express while you were growing up?

Darren Smith (05:20)

Absolutely, I remember I had blue hair and then I got called into the principal's office and then they were just like look We need to have a talk about your attitude like well what attitude you know? Well, we see that you're going through some changes right now. Yes, I have blue hair

House Of Peregrine (05:40)

And so that was alarming where you grew up to have blue hair.

Darren Smith (05:44)

Yeah, well that exactly if that is what is alarming, I really wonder what they think of my book. So

House Of Peregrine (05:53)

I hope that things have changed a bit, but let's talk about your book in a second. I wanted to first, it's mentioned quite prominently, and I think it's a big part of your life, ⁓ that you were working with Stan Schaeffer at the beginning of your career. And so I wonder if you could tell us that story quickly. And then I wanna circle back to what brought you to these festivals and photographing these people, but.

think it's a big part of your story maybe , you mention it quite prominently in your book, do you want to tell us about it?

Darren Smith (06:26)

I love talking about Stan because he's no longer with us. And when I was after, after I went to university, I went to university in Australia and I came back to the U.S. just because I kind of thought, well, I'm going to change how everyone thinks and share my international mindset. And well, that didn't go very well, but I ended up in New York assisting for Stan. He's a fashion photographer from the, like the seventies, eighties, nineties era.

And he was just an absolute inspiration, but he really photographed the times in the sense that you think of glamour and disco and everything that entails in New York society. That's what he was about. And he was working on his ⁓ own coffee table book. was like a retrospective of his life in some ways, and it ended up being his swan song. So.

Unfortunately, he passed away the day he submitted the last deadline for the book.

House Of Peregrine (07:26)

Wow. And you were his assistant and then turned into someone who was caring for his work with his son Justin, who also wrote the intro and a forward to your book, I thought was really lovely.

Darren Smith (07:39)

Yeah, so I've always maintained very close contact with this family and we were also like similar ages so was kind of as they were growing up and becoming their own selves I was also then like you know developing as a adult and professionally as well so then we always maintained contact after their father passed away and then I was asked I think in 2016

to come help them make a show of the, like the state wanted to make a show of his work in San Francisco, at Evergold Galleries. And I helped curate and go through the whole technical process with them and the photo editing, like in terms of selection, which photographs that Stan felt were important. And I felt very much like an advocate speaking his minds in some ways, because they're over...

House Of Peregrine (08:33)

You worked so closely with

him.

Darren Smith (08:35)

And there are over a million negatives in this collection. So I am possibly the only human on earth who's seen all of the work and it made it a very intimate process to go through. And anyone that's went through photographs of a deceased person, you often feel like you're having a conversation with that person. And that's one of the beautiful things of photography. But then when you multiply that times the amount of work he has and

The fact that you want to produce it and share also part of what links that to society and why it's relevant to today, it becomes a very intense process.

House Of Peregrine (09:15)

can only imagine. it's such a lovely, people don't know this about me, but I spent 10 years in advertising and have a degree in photography. And so I can really relate to that notion that if someone were to go through the negatives, and now it's digital files, right, but I did shoot on film for a long time, that's a really intimate process. But also, being a curator is not always the same skill as being a photographer. And so the fact that you're able to do both and have had the experience of

creating something professionally from both points of view is really nice. So I'm gonna step back from geeking out there.

So Justin compared your work to Irving Penn, and when I saw your work, I agreed, but also a little bit, I really saw some of the work of Diane Arbus as well as an influence from my own time. Did you start out in portrait photography or is that something, is that the work you were doing commercially when you were living in Australia?

Darren Smith (10:11)

In Australia I worked at a commercial ⁓ firm called Acorn Photo and they actually specialised in architecture photography. for a lot of my professional life I was honing very different skill set in terms of photography but my passion has always been portraits and people. And so then whenever I came here I really decided well I need to also think more about what I'm excited about and not just what pays the bills.

House Of Peregrine (10:38)

Right.

Darren Smith (10:39)

see if I can combine those aspects a bit more. And that's how it kind of got started. But Irving Penn was absolutely a huge inspiration He did a similar book back in the late sixties called Worlds in a Small Room, which was about inviting people from all walks of life, but everywhere from Papua New Guinea to San Francisco. And

I really felt that I wanted to examine that, through ⁓ originality and creativity and the place to find those now, which I believe to be festivals and cultural galleries.

House Of Peregrine (11:22)

Yeah. And so I have this timeline, right? You moved to Australia, went to university, moved back, thought you were going to change things, found your work ⁓ with Stan in New York. I think there's a stopover in Paris there that I'm missing.

Darren Smith (11:39)

yeah, so one day I'm working with Stan and then he says, I'm moving to France with my lover. And I thought, okay, well, I'm out of a job. And then it was very quiet and he's a very extroverted, very person who would say what was on his mind. So I thought that was a bit odd. And then he got to the end of the day and then he just said, no, that I really wanted to say, like, that's an invitation. I want you to come to France with me and live in a barn and we are going to finish my photo book.

As a, I think a 22 year old, that sounded like a fantastic idea.

House Of Peregrine (12:15)

Wow. And so that was your second stop in a foreign country. So from the US to Australia, back to the US repatriating France to work with Stan and then back to the US or where did you go from there?

Darren Smith (12:29)

So then my now wife said, you need to get out of France because this book thing you're doing is taking a very long time. And so she came over and visited and I, while I was there and then she ended up booking me a one way ticket to Australia and said, right, we're not doing this long distance thing anymore. just how I ended up back in Australia. Also, I really wanted to go, but I,

And then I ended up started working there professionally. And then we just hung out there until I think eight years Timeline to me is a bit fuzzy, but then in 2016, we almost at the drop of a hat had a recommendation from a friend who said, Hey, you should check out Amsterdam. Why don't you go to Amsterdam to do your thing? And three days later, we booked one way tickets to Amsterdam and just said, if it doesn't work out.

It could be a very expensive holiday.

House Of Peregrine (13:28)

Wow, I feel like that's so resonant with my own story, but we came for a year. One-way ticket, and that, had you ever been here before? You'd been in France, but not maybe in Amsterdam? Had you been here before?

Darren Smith (13:44)

No, not at all. I knew one person and he wasn't even living here whenever I moved over. was, he was coming in a couple months later. So it was like, well I'll get settled and then I'll get some tips. But it was, we, so my wife, Matilda, she had already been to Amsterdam once when she was 19. But she said she'd seen like the middle of the town from basically where the station is.

just down to the de bijenkorf area and just it's one street more or less. And then, so when she came back, she said, wow, Amsterdam is massive. I don't remember it being so big.

House Of Peregrine (14:25)

My gosh. So sight unseen, basically you moved here. Kind of like me, I get it. And that impulse, I think, is a strange and beautiful impulse to just jump off a cliff. And a lot of people in our community have had that experience, but before I moved here, I hadn't met any of them. So I literally felt like a crazy person. And I had three toddlers at the time as well, so I didn't feel like an adult, and I didn't feel like a sane person, but I just knew I needed to go.

And so that I love that you had a similar experience, maybe without the toddlers, but it's a much bigger move from Australia to Amsterdam.

Darren Smith (15:03)

think it was a different move. I don't think you could say bigger or smaller because you have your own challenges with three toddlers. I think for us, it was more that we moved with four suitcases or however much you can get on a normal ticket. And we just came into a fully furnished apartment for six months. But then I...

we needed to find a place and that ended up being a shell, the second apartment. I remember, Matilda went off to a family reunion while we moved into the other place. And I think for two weeks, all that we had in that apartment was a towel and a pillow, I think. ⁓ I was waiting for IKEA to deliver, but IKEA in the Netherlands in delivery is a bit like, figure.

House Of Peregrine (15:54)

It's like being in Vegas.

Darren Smith (15:55)

Yeah, and figuring out the astrological clock on when they say they can deliver, which is not anytime soon. So I'd been sitting waiting on this delivery that kept being delayed on like, well, one day I'll be sleeping in a little bed.

House Of Peregrine (16:08)

Yep, we have similar. We came with only suitcases as well. We had five of us, so it was a lot of suitcases, but yeah, I get it. And we slept on an air mattress for nearly six months. So it is a very funny story, and it wasn't for any other reason besides we needed to figure out to live here, there are indeed those things. So when you moved here, you had to figure out maybe, was this a big transition in your...

creative expression as well because you were working for an architectural photography studio and now you could maybe focus on your passions. What made you go to your first festival and start photographing?

Darren Smith (16:46)

So the first one I went to, just previous to that, I'd done a little project with Lady Galore, who is one of the major drag queens in the Netherlands, and they were doing a 50 drag queen lip-syncing video. And we made this little project that ended up getting in the... ⁓

Design and Architecture Museum in Rotterdam. And just from that, they asked me, hey, do you want to come in the Milkshake Festival and take more photos? And it just kind of was like, okay, well, I'll just start making some more photos. But again, I was thinking really about just these little individual portrait projects that would boost my portfolio. And it just very quickly turned into, that invite turned into another invite.

and it grew organically for a long time. And then I very much decided that if I was going to continue it needed to be on the world stage and not just Amsterdam.

House Of Peregrine (17:52)

Yeah, that makes sense. was that, had you ever been to a festival before, like yourself as like a participant, or was this also you discovering what it's like to be at a festival like this?

Darren Smith (18:05)

I think it was the first time I've been to festivals, let's say like that, because I went to plenty of places in Australia. My very first gig as a photographer was, and this is all the way back, I think 2006, 2007, that there was a, like an online of some sort that they went at photos of all these gigs. And a friend of mine was a journalist and she said, well, why don't you just sign up and we'll do it together.

And so we go off and photograph these gigs and just take one photo that they were going to use on the website. And that's how I got through the last year of university with sort of doing odd jobs like that. And I got to a lot of cool festivals there.

House Of Peregrine (18:51)

That's amazing. See, it wasn't your first time. So you kind of knew what to expect a little bit. so from there, this transformation, so you're taking portraits, you're, what did you start noticing about this? Or maybe you came in with a theory about how these identities form, because I imagine the process of someone,

deciding to go to a festival, creating their persona, whether or not it's from scratch or one they use often, did you already have insight into that process or was that something new for you?

Darren Smith (19:25)

something completely new to me and it was very much having the collective mass of the body of work that whenever I started joining a couple of projects together and trying to look for a thread, one of the first things I started to notice was how it was so strongly linked to community first and why is that and the fact that

When you go to a festival, it's something you've been looking forward to all year potentially, and you're there to see your friends and you might not reconnect with them again for another year. And so I started thinking to myself, that is a great place to photograph people because then they're really very relaxed. It's very personal to them and they're also very extravagantly presented.

House Of Peregrine (20:21)

Yeah, it's probably the only place that adults dress up like that, you know, besides Halloween, maybe in the States. But we should go back and say each the book is a book of portraits. So these people are dressed to the nines in costumes and personas, sometimes provocative, sometimes just really they look like professionally decorated or, you know, dressed up. They look like they've been to a costumer. But

for the most part, they're self-made, is that right?

Darren Smith (20:53)

For the most part, yes. There are a few exceptions, but it meant that for me there was a clear criteria that I needed to draft and think about when I'm curating the places and that the fashion is either self-made or it's community-based where people are performing in a trope, so then they have dedicated costume designers. I was very much excluding people that were buying things from a store and you could see it was store-bought.

And when I have people that are with me to help me scout, that's one of the things I say to them is, all right, you think that is an amazing costume. I want you to find everyone that you think is amazing and bring them back, but make sure that you walk up to them to have a conversation and really carefully look at the costume and what they have to say because if it's just something that they bought, it won't have as much meaning and won't be necessarily part of the project.

House Of Peregrine (21:52)

Yeah. And yeah, that's, it's so telling when someone puts that much work into something that they're going to present as. And so each portrait, and we're going to show some of these ⁓ in the video, if people can see this, or you can see our website, each portrait really is them presenting them their work to you and their persona, whether they're in, or some of them in.

character or is it mostly just them presenting this visual representation?

Darren Smith (22:21)

is both in character and it is themselves because I, in order, I think to go on these journeys that people also craft another persona, which is maybe a more authentic version of themselves, or they also want to enter a fantasy, which is usually, you know, in theme of whatever the event is that they want to embrace. But there's also a third element, which is a cultural element, which

some of the places I've been to, for example, carnivals, that people are just being characters that is in part a parody of things going on or represents even like a pagan ritual that ⁓ they belong to a culture, that this is what they follow, but it is a community-based event.

House Of Peregrine (23:08)

Yeah, there's a few in there that are pretty recognizable, but a few that aren't. So there's like someone dressed up as the devil, which is a controversial subject, right? And then there's others that are, you can see there's a woman with feathers that has feathers on her hair and a skull, I believe, like a skull of an animal. And so you can themes being played with, or maybe they're representing, or maybe they're provoking something.

there are several references to like religious or pagan things. And then there's the ones that are just, they've made this character up from a ⁓ combination of references or their own imagination. say Burning Man is one you've been to. It's kind of a celebration of the individual. ⁓ Be yourself, be, know, off.

We're out of society for these days. Do you find that is when people's best character comes out or do you think this is just them expressing something that is latent inside?

Darren Smith (24:16)

I that it is always going to be a combination of those things because it really exists on the spectrum for anyone of like why they're there. And I interviewed a lot of people to ask them this question. And it's it's so base, you know, personal and case by case, but within that in defining like what it is that I'm

by exploring radical self-expression, is from ⁓ one of the principles from Burning Man is certainly one that has come up and helped define what it is and that very much that this is the most unfiltered version of who you are or who you want to present.

House Of Peregrine (25:06)

So taking off a filter is a big theme, maybe.

Darren Smith (25:09)

Absolutely.

House Of Peregrine (25:10)

Yeah, And when I was growing up, the funny thing about Burning Man is I grew up in Salt Lake City and a lot of people went to Burning Man, but no one talked about going to Burning Man. And so that has changed radically since I was a kid or a teenager into going to Burning Man being a part of your entire personality. And so for a place like the US or maybe it's just my perception, it's less...

more accepted in a lot of circles to go to these festivals now. again, maybe that's just my worldview and it's always been that way. you think that we, and maybe you can speak to where you're from too, do you think we're accepting that there's multiple versions of ourselves because these festivals have become more prominent or more plentiful or maybe more, like yourself, people are bringing it out, bringing the images out.

What are your thoughts on that?

Darren Smith (26:07)

I think that it's been going on for hundreds of years because there are plenty of other festivals like Carnival, which dates at least 400 years. I mean, ⁓ without going a lot into the history of Carnival and then other pagan celebrations and mystery plays and different things that I think it has been going on, that it's very much that it may be

It's not true, which is that Burning Man isn't the Studio 54 of our era. But I think because of that, say, idea, that we can look to that as a North Star of culture and what's going on, and then say, well, because of that, these things are happening. And maybe it was just that it had to be something for our generation, and this is what it was. And then it's reflected in other things.

I think it's certainly helped though that through Burning Man and through other, say, cultural zeitgifts that have happened in the last 15 years, that it's certainly become more widely accepted. But I can't think of any other festival that has as many naked people as Pretenance. ⁓

House Of Peregrine (27:28)

as many of What kind of people?

Darren Smith (27:30)

Naked people.

House Of Peregrine (27:31)

Naked people, yeah, yeah. And that, when it first started, there was no social media. And so I think that also helped. But what I wanted to ask you is, there any, ever any, has there ever been any resistance to you photographing these or publishing the photos by the people that run the festivals?

Darren Smith (27:49)

No, because step one is ensuring that there will be no resistance by inviting them as a collaborator to, first of all, I really need to be very close to where the action is so that the people don't have that far to walk. it's like for them, it's easy. And then I also need things like electricity, but then it also means that whenever it came to promoting the book and I crowdfunded it. So then I was able to go back to those.

venues and say, Dear collaborator, it's now ready to go into book form. Would you please put me on your newsletter or whatever you want to do? But you know, this is my intention. And everyone was extremely supportive.

House Of Peregrine (28:34)

That's amazing.

collaboration seems to be a really big part of how you approach this. And so it feels like you're collaborating with not only the individual and the community that comes together, ⁓ but with this idea of the overall arching ⁓ idea that people come together and have these gatherings that are by definition temporary and by definition,

⁓ outlandish in some way. And so my question for you is, ⁓ is that, in coming up with the name Mayflies, is that, how did that bring all of your ideas together?

Darren Smith (29:15)

In the beginning, I had called this book Overnight Tribes, and it didn't feel like it stuck because a tribe is very much something that you need to belong to, it's very much a bit religious, and you're either in the tribe or you're not. And in the 90s, this was, of course, a big thing of find your tribe, and you were a goth or a hacker or a...

well, I guess it's like a slacker, like all these things, all these labels. And I really found that didn't work for this project, that it was the opposite of labels. And then I still needed a name for the book. And I found this definition of Mayflies that they come out once a year and they dance across every available surface and then they go away and come back again. And the people I photograph live to celebrate one

I mean, sometimes it is longer, but the fact that they were just dancing across every available surface really seemed to define where I was because I often felt like there was no space for a photo shoot. And in Mayflies are an interesting winged insect because they're a lifespan, but also because in a lot of people's heads they have like a dragonfly when you're thinking of a Mayfly, and they're like, oh, it's like kind of purple wings.

But actually a mayfly is a bit unique, but it's also like a little bit annoying that all the places I saw that have mayfly swarms, they're like literally everywhere and they're just living this glorious life for one day. that was a starting point on, as the book was developing on deciding, well, is this a mayfly place? Is this a place where people are really living the life?

House Of Peregrine (31:06)

Yeah, and that looks different from festival to festival, but they are living intentionally on purpose for one day coming together. In the case of Burning Man, it's in terrible weather. In other festivals, maybe it's against cultural norms, but against all odds, they're coming together ⁓ and to the fullest they And when you were coming up with this name,

Do you feel like there's part of you that was exploring that as well as an artist? Because you were kind of constrained growing up in Australia. You weren't from Australia and you were working in architecture, which is not your favorite medium maybe or your favorite thing to photograph. So is this a way of you exploring as an artist as well?

Darren Smith (31:57)

100%. And I think the whole process is also for me about letting go as an artist and just accepting what is because as you're trained, especially in commercial photography, uh, where people are like looking to weed out imperfections because you know, it needs to be a perfect polished image. And I then letting go and then saying, Hey, if there are creases in the background, that's just part of it because it turns out that it was very windy that day.

And I'm not going to pretend that it is perfect. I did try to find this balance. And then I think in letting go, was able to actually have a few things that remain behind. So in a couple of the photos, you might see leaves on the ground or in almost every photo, you will see a wristband. If there was a wristband, I didn't touch it out. And that's the wristband from the event. And most of them aren't very nice. They're just pieces of plastic that I left there intentionally so that you knew that it was from an event.

House Of Peregrine (32:57)

And that must have been really hard. So we're seeing a lot of restraint when we see these things. I have a feeling.

Darren Smith (33:04)

Restraints and curation because I photographed over a thousand people and in just a bookmaking process that's just part of what happens is you need to, I think of it like the rain. First, evaporate a whole bunch of things into a giant cloud and the cloud of pictures is just around and when do you have enough to make a book whenever it just starts raining one day because it's just the right conditions and

To get the right conditions, you need also the right team and to explore the right themes. think then whenever start the actual laying out the book and that side of it, then actually the pairings and the things, the strengths of the project naturally congeal together and you already know which photos are powerful pictures. But then you have to link those moments up. You need to find things that are unique and that in the photo book also

that there's no beginning or an end often. You just need to be able to pick it up and open it and go on a different journey, hopefully every time, because I hope you don't pick it up and it just lands in the same picture, that then you can go backwards or forwards. And I think all of this is through this whole process of ⁓ collecting.

House Of Peregrine (34:23)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that the process of making a book is a rigorous and interesting and it's really hard to go through these things and pick your favorites or pick the ones that maybe aren't your favorites, but that work as a book. there images in the book that you absolutely had to have?

Darren Smith (34:44)

Absolutely. Yeah, it I think though I went on there were pictures that I felt strongly about but then I I had an editor who very much and a very great collaborator so he would put forward ideas and say well, what do you think about this and I'd say well, you know, that's not my favorite idea, but I am NOT really a type of person. I like to say no, so I would just let it sit and I would realize by

letting it sit that there was so much strength to what he brought to that and then realizing that some pictures that I felt strongly about were actually my own to that moment. And that isn't what makes a strong picture sometimes that you have to kind of separate that out. But they're definitely favorite photographs and they ended up in the book.

House Of Peregrine (35:36)

want to tell us which ones they were? What's two that you wouldn't let go of?

Darren Smith (35:42)

So one of them is a picture of a fire performer. I photographed a wasteland party, which is a BDSM festival in Amsterdam. And it was the first time I went to a party. I was backstage and it was her first time there as a fire performer, but she just had surgery the few days before. So I didn't know this until after the fact because later she told me we're still in contact. And she shared with me that

she had ⁓ surgery a few days before. her entire performance, she was in agony. And then they said, go to this photographer who's backstage. And she just has this like look of vulnerability and different things that I can now see. And I've always seen the vulnerability, but now I know why. And I feel like that's a special moment because for both of us, it was our first time there. we have since gone on creative journeys.

That's one and then another is a photo of a little girl that I photographed in Northern Macedonia at a pagan carnival called Vercani. And it's an 800 year old carnival where people come together for pagan New Year. But she's actually dressed as a Disney character Maleficent or don't know you pronounce that, but, and she just has this wisdom.

beyond her years. just looks like a fully grown adult in some ways, but she's I think about seven years old, but I feel she's very wise and she was one of my translators while I was there. It this seven year old girl speaking to everyone in Macedonia and then in English for me. But I took a photo because she was the daughter of the organizer and you know, that was very much a gift to say thank you for all the help.

And very quickly, as soon she got in front of the camera, I thought, is a serious picture.

House Of Peregrine (37:42)

Yeah. I love what you said about, ⁓ is this a great strong image or am I in love with the moment? must be hard to separate. And probably part of the process of making this book was and letting it out into the wild is that, right? That you're letting other people create their own moments with these images. And so it sounds like your collaboration was a good first step to do that.

Darren Smith (38:05)

It really was and I believe that it's important for any type of collaboration to put your audience in the front in the way that I believe first that I'm the person who's there to showcase other people's creativity and I find it hard to get in front of the camera and talk to people but I do because their courage and their belief in themselves gives me some belief in that

of what I'm doing and that I want to share it. But also, I think I have to think about how to best get that message across. And that's where I think that then I can really separate it is to say that like, this is not just a book about Darren, this is a book about creative people and originality, and that these are really important messages. And if I put that in the front, then it's much easier to say.

House Of Peregrine (39:02)

Yeah, and we didn't go over your process, but you and I, when we were speaking earlier, did. So maybe you can share it with everybody. This moment when people step in front of your camera and kind of transform. Tell us how this happens over and over again. It's kind of like the magic. ⁓ And I'd love for you give us some insight into that.

Darren Smith (39:22)

So to give you a little bit of perspective and paint the picture is this could my studio exists anywhere where there is an event and this could be a ⁓ sidewalk where there's a carnival happening in a parade and I'm just there with this photo studio and lights. It could be backstage in a nightclub or it could be at Burning Man suspended off of an art car. And I'm there and I've

collaborate with the organizers to find what is what we think is the best place that I can exist. And I come with a few friends who are voluntold what to do. And we embark on this adventure, is just we don't really announce it anywhere that it just happens naturally. We're just there with a photography background and we invite people to collaborate in an art project. And if I'm

asking you to help me find people. just say, you don't need to explain anything. Just wait until they're walking with you. Just say, you look amazing. Follow me. That's all you need to say. And then whenever they get to the art project, then it's an experiential thing where they're suddenly like, wow, this is here. And we have an interaction individually. I try to give people as long as I can, both in the physical aspect, the

How long do I photograph for? It could be five hours. It could be two hours. Could be 10 hours. Depends on what the parameters are of the event. And we just photograph until we get tired. And then at some point, the party gets a little out of control. And that's pretty much when we decide when we're going to leave. it's just this whole kind of ⁓ thing that we do.

House Of Peregrine (41:10)

Yeah, so this is an atmosphere where you can say to someone, you look amazing, follow me.

Darren Smith (41:14)

Yeah, well, you really want to at least have them hear you and say that, but there, there's quite often that, ⁓ I'm even in places that are so loud and chaotic that it's like you tap them on the shoulder and they're like, what? Dancing. And you're like, okay, like there. then I've had to approach some people a few times to get them to then go, let's go have a cigarette. All right. Now, ⁓ this is what I want to say to you. And then they're like, yeah, of course. Yeah, let's go.

House Of Peregrine (41:41)

That's amazing. And when they come in front of the camera, that's a different kind of moment. If you've just been in loud music, maybe even in your own universe, not even caring if you're seen, and then you go to being hyper-focused on, that's a real moment, I think, that you're creating there.

Darren Smith (42:00)

I hope so. I mean, the and the idea of coming with the backgrounds by removing all the context of where they are, because you already see and you think of the photos of all festivals and it's glorious and sunlit and people laughing. And but if you take all of that away and just focus on what is so great and all the details within someone like their expression, but also, of course, what they're wearing. And then that becomes

front and center and the story and my connection to them, which is just about having a moment and photographing them in this moment where they're at their most comfortable and sometimes they're not that comfortable in front of the camera, but then it's just a process of taking a lot of photos sometimes, sometimes first we just hang out a bit and chat and other people who are there like.

Also, I don't have a line. There's no like photo booth aspect to it or I try to prevent that. So if suddenly there are a line of people I have to say, I'm sorry, this is an art project. not a photo booth. You can't pay for this. You can't line up either really. So you just come back in a little while and we'll try to remember who we saw before in case, you know, that way we can prioritize you. But I really try to stress that it's about the person.

who's there and having a moment together.

House Of Peregrine (43:25)

Yeah.

What do you think the effect is on someone when they're chosen and then photographed like that and then put into a book or to a collection? That's a really alchemical process in my opinion. But what do you think the effect is on that person?

Darren Smith (43:42)

Well, I think a complicated one just by the fact that...

House Of Peregrine (43:50)

It's like probably 10

questions, honestly. answer however you see fit. But I also think then it has an effect on the audience as well. So I think this loop that you're creating of the way you're approaching it, which is like selecting someone, bringing them in, talking to them, that makes a big difference in the effect it has also on the audience.

Darren Smith (43:54)

Yeah.

Well, I think it because it's always to say, Hey, we're participating in an art project and you will get a copy of the photo and I'm making this book, but explaining that all at once is sometimes incoherent. I've often tried to met to communicate that. So it's been really having different points of contact where I touch base with them to say, Hey, you know, we're photographing you. It's about this thing. And then.

when they receive the photos, send out the like a community email to everyone that participated to say, thank you so much. You'll hear from me again in this later point. So that at least it's a conversation that continues and that people then add me on Instagram and we continue talking because this is how I get recommendations as well is that people say, Hey, have you heard of this event? Here's some photos. And then I go, my God, this is amazing. And it just becomes that they become then

collaborators in some way, but I've often, and I still try to find new ways to make sure that I engage with people so that my intentions are really clear, that like, hey, I want to create art out of this and that you are the art to some degree, but also it is this whole process and it's about showing this that I want them to be able to see themselves how I see them. And then I also want them to see each other.

So then they see, say, someone from Day of Dead in Mexico looks at some European festival and they go, wow, we are one in the same. And that is my goal of this whole collaborative process.

House Of Peregrine (45:50)

Yeah, so it's almost like a thread that runs around the entire world and people who have this, don't know, would you call it an impulse or this gift? I mean, you can see it in many ways, this offering, this impulse, this exchange of going to these festivals, dressing up, creating these personas or showing these personas or the sides of themselves. Being in front of a camera, that's the next step because sometimes these events aren't photographed, they're completely.

mostly anonymous. do you think there's some magic in them actually being willing to share this with your project?

Darren Smith (46:27)

Yes, I believe that they are the magic and try to go to extraordinary lengths also just to match their intensity and the level of like all the backgrounds are hand painted and I think that I can only amplify like their awesomeness and that's very much how the process like is informed is that I need to capture that magic.

House Of Peregrine (46:56)

That's a beautiful thing you've just said, I think. I try to match their intensity, I love that. Because I think, for me at least, what I see in these portraits is that they are, and in a way you're trying to catch a mayfly in a jar, right? You're actually catching them, presenting them, it's probably never gonna happen again, it may never happen this way again. ⁓ And that's a really.

A, beautiful idea, but then B, sharing it with others, creating community around it, that there's more people around the world like this. It makes the world seem a little more friendly.

Darren Smith (47:33)

I think that that's necessary in the times that we live in to not only feel connected, but to understand that desire as well as they're like these places exist, but there's also this impulse to just for humans to come together and celebrate together. And when that happens, naturally they also are created. And it comes out even if you think of

like a toddler's birthday party that then someone puts on a silly hat and runs around. that it's important, I think, for us to recognize that this is part of humanity, is to celebrate and to create.

House Of Peregrine (48:18)

When I first saw your book, I imagined for some reason, someone who has always wanted to go to a festival but never had the courage that they get to actually experience what it might be like to have their desires reflected in these portraits. Because it's not a large amount of people that go to these, do these sorts of things. And so I really, for some reason, had this image of someone who maybe grew up like you or I that sees your book

and maybe either moves to another place because they feel like they feel isolated and they figure out there's these people like them, or they're able to feel a little more at home in their weirdness. ⁓ And so I think for me, that's what that evoked is this opportunity to be able to see something you wouldn't otherwise be able to see or participate in.

Darren Smith (49:14)

I think that there's definitely that cabinet of curiosities and that you don't have to want to go to these places to experience the photographs and enjoy them. And that I certainly hope that it does evoke curiosity that maybe it's something that you think, all right, well, maybe I should check that out or something similar. Then you have now ⁓ just another point of reference and another reason why you should. But I think also, I think that that

is like beneath the surface in terms of what you could read into it because I think if I say that's my mission then it kind of takes away the power of that. I think that it's part of the art and it's definitely one thing that I want to inspire but I have to be very restrained in to say that this is what I expect.

House Of Peregrine (50:08)

Yeah, of course. And other thing I wanted to say about the work is that when I, I flipped through without reading any of the titles as just a first visual read. And I went deep because I was selecting, I was trying to select some photos that we would use for House of Peregrine. But ⁓ when I went through, I was very surprised that a few of these were a BDSM festival. I know that sounds funny, but the provocative nature of what they're wearing is not, ⁓

What comes to first is their humanity. And that I think is neither good or bad, but it was surprising to me that ⁓ I couldn't tell what the festival was or what it was about by what they're wearing.

Darren Smith (50:48)

that is deliberate on my part, is that if you think of BDSM festivals and pictures, they tend to be hyper-sexualized. ⁓ I just wanted to take away from that element and just also to say that because a lot of the times they are dressed in thousands, like the outfits are worth thousands of dollars. And as soon as you really focus on that, then also you're in a fashion element. so I very much saw that there's...

humanity and just that they like love being here and that they come from people come from all walks of life to do any of these events. So the reality is that some people might be, I don't know, like a real estate agent or an accountant and they're still at all of these different events and that is immaterial because at one stage I was actually collecting like information and interviewing the people I photographed that were going to be in the book. I

tried to just go, well, what is the line? And, you know, is this interesting? And in the end, I decided to exclude all of that information and just leave it as the photographs with the byline of where it is, because the only thing that matters is that you see their humanity and you see the connection that they have in that moment that we share. the rest, there's of course, a bit more text in the back, but the rest is for you to construct your own narrative and decide yourself what you find interesting and to look into.

House Of Peregrine (52:16)

Yeah, that definitely comes through, so bravo. But ⁓ I was struck by that because I think, I think the images speak for themselves in their, provocative because, not because of what the person's wearing, but because the level of vulnerability that has been expressed through human contact. And that's any great portrait photographer. I'm also a very, yeah, I'm

I'm geek and a connoisseur of of the other things I wanted to ask you was about your ⁓ intention, like how this all weaves together as part of your experience as a foreigner now for most of your adult life. How do you see that weaving into this work?

Darren Smith (53:01)

I think that that starts with having an international mindset and just the way that I went from a very small town in Virginia to Australia. And I went to Perth, which was a city of two million people. So suddenly, that's not a very big city, but still to me, that felt like an infinitely large city where I was then in a student village hanging out with international people.

And that investment alone has been a free Airbnb for different couches around the world now. And part of this project, in fact, is visiting some of those people. But I think all of that really began whenever I started as an international student. And then you just can't unturn that page.

House Of Peregrine (53:52)

which is why I'm always trying to find them for international life because you don't outgrow the place. nobody understands your experience when you go back. And so that's why we use Peregrine because Peregrines can live on any continent of the world, but it means outsider.

Darren Smith (54:11)

I think that, I mean, as you said, that like, you can't compare your experience and you can't go back. And I think that that's absolutely what I realized through my experiences.

House Of Peregrine (54:27)

Did that make

you feel lonely when you moved back?

Darren Smith (54:31)

I think so. think that I didn't realize that it made me feel lonely because I just had this desire to continue to learn and to grow. And I wasn't finding that same.

House Of Peregrine (54:47)

level of intensity. People were not meeting you in your level of intensity.

Darren Smith (54:47)

stimulation.

Well, maybe it's intensity, maybe it's just curiosity because I really just love talking and having conversations with people that have completely different backgrounds and learn something new from that. And I think that the US is a place that it's so big that you can just continue to do your own thing and that you have an experience, which is that you think that...

everything in your surrounding is just how things are and the rest of the world, it turns out, operates in a completely different way. know, there are kilometers and then there are miles and then there's Fahrenheit and Celsius and that is just, it continues.

House Of Peregrine (55:22)

Mm.

Yeah. And I think that's a really good insight is that if your bubble is so big, you think that's the whole world.

Darren Smith (55:42)

Yeah, and I feel like whenever you see another bubble, then you suddenly are just looking at it from another point of view. it's just that you can't go back into the old one because you yourself have changed and people change and grow at a different rate. And I see it with my friends back home and my family that they have their own lives and their own experiences.

And the experiences that you get when you're overseas, you just grow exponentially. It all just happens very quickly.

House Of Peregrine (56:18)

Yeah, it's like you're expanding in all directions at once.

Darren Smith (56:22)

Yeah, and you're having to adapt a whole other culture and rule set, everything. And then you find what works with you and from that as well. I feel like it's very much you have the luxury to pick from different cultures at that point of which rules you want to follow and what you believe, because you suddenly see that there are different value systems. And it's hard to compare the Netherlands.

House Of Peregrine (56:49)

I always

say there's a cult in every culture. And then you see the cult you're from, and then you just start making your own religion.

Darren Smith (57:00)

I think that that's exactly how it goes, is that you have to constantly...

think search within yourself and in the beginning, especially to really go like, am I crazy? Like people do this. And then you have to get a lot of detective skills and really understand people's motives and their way of operating and then realize that you were the person that they are probably thinking, ⁓ they're acting a bit strange. yeah.

House Of Peregrine (57:33)

Yeah, and I think that in a way it makes you, like you said, a detective, and so you're always observing, it makes you live life a different way and from a different perspective. And now the effect it's had on me is I never actually hold an opinion very strongly. I never did before, but now it's worse. So nothing is sacred now. I hold very things sacred, ⁓ but I think and hope in a good way. ⁓ But living,

Creating a life from scratch or a worldview or a perspective is a very interesting process, one that you have to actually be ready for, I last thing I wanted to ask you about is you have a daughter and she's being raised now in the Netherlands. Is that right? Was she born here?

Darren Smith (58:18)

Yeah, so she was born just after the tail end of COVID so that was one of our concerns when we were thinking of having kids. So then as soon as it felt like it was possible for us, we Thea and she's three years old. She is Dutch, American and Australian. And it's really great to see that language acquisition from

like someone who's then learning two languages because she gets full-time Dutch at daycare. We also speak a bit of Dutch to her, which you're told you're not supposed to do really because it can confuse people with different accents and also if your grammar isn't perfect. But my wife is also a linguist, so she's very tuned in on the language learning process.

House Of Peregrine (59:10)

Yeah, and for me at least, and maybe it's the same for you, I feel kind of happy that, I mean, that nowhere is perfect, but if you went to school with blue hair in the Netherlands, people would barely even look at you, like that's a problem. Do you find that comforting that she's growing up somewhere where she can be a little bit more self-expressed perhaps?

Darren Smith (59:31)

I think in all avenues, I feel more comfortable that she's growing up here. ⁓ And I mean, first, there are no guns in schools like you have in the US. That's like one thing that I forget about even that I have to be so grateful for every time I read the news. But I think for me, it's also just the fact that sex education is just part of education here. It starts actually in kindergarten and that she has a

maybe a more healthy attitude towards sexuality and respecting other people's boundaries and other aspects of ⁓ being an adult that I think a lot of us get when we're like teenagers, that it's just part of the education system.

House Of Peregrine (1:00:20)

Yeah. And what about your partner? So you grew up in Australia?

Darren Smith (1:00:24)

Yes, ⁓ she's from Perth and had lived there almost her whole life. was only through traveling that we had left. She lived for a little while in France as an au pair. And when we moved here, it was her first big time moving abroad. But we had different points of view in the beginning that she thought that, well, we could do it for a year. And if it didn't work out, then it would just be going back to Australia. But I very much thought, well,

House Of Peregrine (1:00:26)

Okay.

Darren Smith (1:00:53)

There's a lot of confirmation bias out in our world and that after a year of people would go, well, you know, that's about what they expected. So I was determined to just make it stick for a little while longer at least. And, also to reassess to constantly say, like, I mean, I think we did say, all right, after six months, we were going to make sure that we didn't hate it after a year. And then it became every, I think from that we said, okay, year two, let's not check in about it. Let's go to year three.

And then at year five, but by that time we had already bought an apartment and really felt settled, but it was more of that double confirmation to go, okay, now that we went through the incredibly complicated house buying process here, how did we feel about that?

House Of Peregrine (1:01:37)

Yeah, and that's important because especially when you're my partner and me as well, neither of us are from here. So it really is that decision to stay in a place over and over again. It's like recommitting to a long-term partnership, recommitting to a place over and over again.

Darren Smith (1:01:55)

I 100 % agree with that sentiment because I also think that I constantly go to other places and go, could I live here? And Amsterdam is the only place that I've ever left. And when I'm not just on holidays, but like away for a job that I think I really miss being there. I miss the convenience and the people and a lot of things. don't ever miss the weather, but

You can't have everything.

House Of Peregrine (1:02:25)

You can't have everything. Yeah, there's compromises no matter what kind of relationship you're in, but hopefully you're making the right ones. And having that love affair with a place and a long-term commitment, ⁓ for me at least it's always been, it's been strange that I don't have any roots here, that it just suits my values, suits the way I wanna live. of course that's a luxury in life, but I think that it's also.

part of a journey that's really important. At least it has been for my family, for generational healing, for a lot of different things. And so I love that that process mirrors a little bit. I think maybe the process some of these people going to these festivals go to where they're expressing something, having it be seen, having it be validated, have it be on display, having a portrait of themselves as this, that process is really

I mean fun, but also healing others, for themselves. Could be that it's cathartic, also they're healing a lot of things or expressing a lot of things, which I think is a really beautiful part of being human.

Darren Smith (1:03:32)

think that that's why I did my adventure and you summarized everything beautifully.

House Of Peregrine (1:03:41)

and I think that's the resonance I see between your project and House of Peregrine and what I'm trying to do. And so it's really just really fun to meet a fellow traveler who sees the world similarly. And so I'm really I'm happy that we get to interact with your work a little bit deeper this year.

Darren Smith (1:03:57)

very happy about that. also for me, it's another experience connecting with people who would say like-minded and that they've traveled to another place and they're experiencing it. doesn't matter for how long because nothing is for forever. And so in the check-ins that you were talking about, that's certainly one thing that is discussed in my family is like, hey, we still love it, but nothing is for forever. So.

Let's just enjoy the time we have together and connect with people as many as we can on a deeper level, hopefully. then when one day we just decide to go somewhere else, that's also.

House Of Peregrine (1:04:38)

Yeah, the sense of impermanence really is on full display when you live abroad and lesser lesser degree when you're at a festival because it's only for one day or five days or however long. But there is this impending sense of impermanence that is actually part of everyday life of living in a different country. Even if you live there till the day you die, I think that impermanence, that that awareness of impermanence is is part of the gig. And so I think it's something I love bringing people together around.

Darren Smith (1:05:06)

think that it's a great thing to have a community around because as soon as you see this idea that where you live doesn't have to be where you always are going to live. It's a paradigm shift. just through other conversations, feel like every time I meet someone and start talking about this, is it then they have another experience in another country that

It just rings true, but in a very different way. I just came back from a holiday in Singapore and I of course talked to a couple of people who live there as, I guess you could say expats, which I don't know. The term never connects with me. think maybe I'm an immigrant or I often say citizen of the world because I've moved now a few times.

House Of Peregrine (1:05:55)

Darren, you're a Peregrine,

just own it. Peregrine, you're a Peregrine. No, but that's why we use Peregrine, because expat never worked for me. Immigrant, I didn't know if I was here forever or if I was staying for very long. I just knew I needed to be where I needed to be during a certain time. And that impulse is, think, potentially, this is my theory, innate. And so some people have it and some people don't.

Darren Smith (1:05:57)

All right, I'm a peregrine.

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with either and.

House Of Peregrine (1:06:24)

Nope. I am

so jealous actually of people who have the ability to stay in one place their whole life.

Darren Smith (1:06:30)

I am, but I think at least the one thing that in terms of my own life that I want to look back and then say that guy, he just got everything out of everything that he could. He just milked it all. He just was on all the places that were really great and just saw so many things. And going back to Stan's work, this is one of the things that really always hits home whenever I see his work and I'm a part of that collection is.

to see someone's life unfold in that way, you really realize the impermanence of where we are in time. that there are also people that see time a different way. And that's why I think impermanence really works for me.

House Of Peregrine (1:07:15)

Yeah, I think that's a really good place to wrap up. I'm really excited to bring people your work ⁓ and actually give them the chance to meet you, to interact with your work, to buy your book. We'll have an event coming up where people can meet you and ask all the questions they want. ⁓ For now, if people can't see you in person, where can they find out more about your work? ⁓ Where can they follow you? All these sorts of things.

Darren Smith (1:07:43)

So my Instagram is Mayfliesbook and that's also my website mayfliesbook.com that has a bit more about my creative journey and of course you can see photos there too.

House Of Peregrine (1:07:57)

Perfect. And I believe if I'm not mistaken, we will have the book in the House of Peregrine marketplace later this year. And you'll be able to follow along with our journey of what we're doing with Mayflies this year at houseofperegrine.com. I'd like to thank everyone for joining us today and please follow along at houseofperegrine.com or follow us on all of the social media handles at houseofperegrine.com podcast.

I am super grateful for Darren and all of you for joining me and we'll see you next time.

Darren Smith (1:08:30)

Thanks for having me.